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BTP60: Using Tarot in Your Business with Kathleen Shannon & Emily Thompson of Being Boss

Using Tarot in Your Business

Today’s podcast episode is really special. Kathleen Shannon and Emily Thompson of Being Boss join the Biddy Tarot podcast to talk about how creative entrepreneurs can use Tarot and other intuitive tools to grow their businesses.

Whether you’re a pro Tarot reader, own a creative business, or work a 9 to 5, you can use Tarot to guide your business journey. Kathleen and Emily aren’t professional Tarot readers, but in this episode, they talk about how they use Tarot in their businesses. This is such a fun and interesting place to play, so listen in to learn how you can tap into Tarot’s guidance to enhance your career.
In this episode, you’ll learn:

  • How to use Tarot to guide strategic business decisions and evaluate goals
  • How to use Tarot to enhance the creative process
  • How to find out if embracing the “woo woo” in your business is right for you

Additional Resources

Podcast Transcript

Brigit: You're listening to the Biddy Tarot Podcast and this is episode 60, Using Tarot in your Business with Kathleen Shannon and Emily Thompson of Being Boss.


Welcome to the Biddy Tarot podcast where you'll learn how to connect more deeply with your intuition and live an empowered and enlightened life with the Tarot cards as your guide.

Listen as and her guests share their very best tips and strategies to help you read Tarot with confidence.

Now here's your host Brigit Esselmont.



Brigit: Hello and welcome. Today I have two amazing guests who are doing just really, really great things in the space of business and working with creative entrepreneurs to build and grow their business in fun and authentic ways. I'm going to welcome Kathleen Shannon and Emily Thompson of the Being Boss Podcast – and they’ll talk about how step into that role of being boss.

Emily Thompson is the founder of Indie Shopography which is a design and strategy web studio where she and her team develop websites for creative entrepreneurs who want to rock their online presence. is where she shares her advice and tactics for makers and doers turning their dreams into a sustainable, profitable business.

Kathleen Shannon is the co-founder of Braid Creative, a personal branding agency for creative entrepreneurs who blend work and life like designers, writers, artists, foodies, yogis and lifestyle professional. is where

she shares her work and her own journey as a creative – tackling fears and taking risks whether she's trekking the foothills of Mt. Everest, starting a family or starting a business.

Together, Emily and Kathleen make an amazing team and I was a guest on their Being Boss Podcast just a few months ago. I was really excited to hear more about how they were integrating Tarot into their business adventures. So that's why I've invited them to the Biddy Tarot podcast – not because they're pro Tarot readers – but more that they are creating exciting stuff in the business space, and using Tarot and other intuitive tools to guide their businesses.

I think that's a really exciting place to play. I would love to see more and more of this where creative entrepreneurs use intuitive tools, such as Tarot or moon cycles, as they grow their business. So sit back and enjoy this conversation with Kathleen and Emily.


Welcome Emily and Kathleen, I am super excited to have you here on the Biddy Tarot Podcast talking about Tarot.

Kathleen: Thanks for having us.

Emily: We're super happy to be here. 

Kathleen: I'm trying not to fan girl out right now; I can't believe I'm on your podcast.

Emily: I know, same.

Kathleen: You're one of the few podcasts I really listen to on my walks. And now here we are.

Emily: Right, and we've been obsessed with your website. I mean we'll do our own Tarot things and then send your articles to each other and say okay you know that Queen of Swords, here is what Biddy says about it. It's great, so we're super honoured to be here. Thank you for having us.

Brigit: My pleasure. So I would love for you to share a little bit about each of yourselves, and what you're doing in your own spaces. And then share what you're doing collaboratively with the Being Boss Podcast. So Emily, do you want to start with a quick intro about yourself?

Emily: I was a web designer for a long time. I started an online business about seven years ago and have been a serial entrepreneur for probably over a decade now. I like online businesses and I like helping creatives start and run online businesses. I just started diving into Tarot maybe about two years ago – and have developed a very personal little practice that just sort of fulfils a personal development need that grew out of hustling really hard in business for as long as I was. Yeah, I guess that's about it.

Brigit: Kathleen, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Kathleen: I own the company Braid Creative and Consulting with my sister where I do branding and business visioning for creative entrepreneurs. I've been doing that for the last five years, and two years ago, Emily and I teamed up to create the Being Boss Podcast.

Being Boss has turned into its own business, and that has been so fun and amazing to work on together. It’s so fun because we use Tarot a lot for the podcast, even to help us make business decisions, which is really wild and fun – but also unlocks all this perspective and story and symbolism. I just think it's a really great way to bring that kind of spirituality and mindfulness into our business. I love it.

Emily: Agreed. And the exciting thing about Being Boss is that we help creative entrepreneurs run businesses and infuse who they are into what they do, and make money doing what they love. We try to keep a lid on the woo-woo factor at Being Boss in terms of just trying to keep it very straight-laced. And what we've found is that so many of our people love this side of what we do! So I'm excited about the opportunity to really dive into how we use these tools to run businesses that have been really successful. And we use some non-traditional means of making decisions and doing what we like to do.

Brigit: I just want to pick up on this idea of wanting to keep woo under the lid, like tell me about that. Where is that coming from? Then also looking into the future – do you see that continuing or do you want to change things up a little?

Kathleen: Oh good question. So, a year ago we took Being Boss through the Braid method branding process where we really started to figure out our positioning and the messaging that we wanting to put into the world and even what we wanted our brand to look like as far as the font and the logo and the look and the feel and the imagery that we use. A lot of the stuff that was really inspiring the both of us was very witchy and moody and magical and mystical.

Thankfully we had my sister helping us facilitate this branding process. She was like, “Okay you guys, any time I'm working with someone they might bring something like spirituality to the table or being a mom comes to the table a lot, like these personal threads of who they are definitely come to the table and they play into your brand. But how much of that do you guys really want to lead with?”

So that gave us something to think about. What is our mission? And how much does the ‘woo’ play into that? And we use the word ‘woo-woo’ as a playful and fun way to describe our magical sensibilities whenever it comes to our spirituality. But just so that your listeners know what we're talking about whenever we say ‘woo.’

So we decided to keep a lid on the ‘woo’ so that we could lead with helping creative entrepreneurs be more boss. And definitely spirituality plays into that. But it was not something that we wanted to lead with because there are people like you, Brigit, who are leading with that. And it's not necessarily what we want to be known for. So if you listen to all of our episodes you know, I mean it becomes pretty clear.

Brigit: Yeah.

Kathleen: Emily you can maybe even speak to our book proposal a little bit. 

Emily: Yeah definitely, it's something that at that very pivotal branding moment qhwn we made the decision to keep the lid on it a little bit. Obviously, if you look at our branding, we're still very playful and really kind of magical in our own little way. And we even have even interviewed you and Carolyn Elliott (who is a total witch) for the podcast.

Kathleen: And Ezzie Spencer.

Emily: Oh yeah – Ezzie Spencer who does Lunar Abundance. We've definitely interviewed some people who are on that side of the spectrum. But it's not really what we want to be known for. But I’d say, once a quarter, we probably have a conversation about ‘woo’ we want to get. We definitely find ourselves toeing our own boundaries occasionally which we totally have fun with and enjoy a lot. 

But in terms of the book proposal which has happened, we've gotten a book deal and one of the things we wanted to bring to the table in that book a lot was our ‘woo-woo’ sensibilities.

But for us it's definitely been appealing to a larger audience and then sort of weaselling down into the people who are interested in more of like Tarot or intention setting or lunar tracking or whatever it may be. So we definitely put plenty of it in there. And our blog is a place where we plug a lot of that stuff for sure. But looking at the overarching theme of Being Boss we don't put it in there, we just kind of sneak it under the table when you don't expect it.

Kathleen: I think a big part of this is that we like to be really transparent and honest about the struggles, the victories, the insights and the tools that we use along the way. We are very generous with our gifts and knowledge and we would be remiss to not share this huge part of how we work which is by setting goals with the new moon and seeing how they manifest six months later or using tarot cards to help us make decisions or to see something from a new perspective. It's just a really big part of how we work and if we were to keep it under a lid too much I feel like we would be doing ourselves and our audience a little bit of disservice. 

Emily: Agreed, I think it'd be very fraudy if we were trying to tell people to infuse who they are into what they do if we weren't really bringing who we are into what we do.

Kathleen: Yeah.

Brigit: It’s such an interesting dance between business and ‘woo,’ because when we think about the business space it's certainly, from my corporate background, it's always like well you can't talk about spirituality, you couldn't talk about Tarot and oracle cards and moon cycles and so, because we don't do that here. Then as you start to speak with people and get to know people in their real, authentic selves you realize this is actually a part of many peoples’ lives. 

So I wonder if maybe we're trying to hid this stuff when really it's actually like, weird not to be into it. I think particularly when you're working with creative entrepreneurs, I would say the majority are working from a place of a little bit of magic and a little bit of woo. So maybe ‘the masses’ are actually the folks who are into this.

So I would be so curious to see how your branding evolves over the next few years and perhaps even as you get more comfortable on a personal level that this is who you are. I think the reason why I just wanted to pick this up was because I think it's, it's not isolated to just us, I think it's many people who are using Tarot or other tools on the side and thinking, “I really, like this tool, it's awesome, but I can't bring it into my professional life because there's boundaries.”

So just stir up some thoughts around how those boundaries might shift and change. 

Kathleen: I think that you can also bring it in on the sly and as long as you know what your intentions are and maybe that these things are kind of backing you up or fuelling your work, you maybe don't need to tell everyone, “Well, I consulted my Tarot this morning.” 

But for example, we've got someone on our team who does SEO and content strategy and she started creating a product around prompts and she was using her Tarot as inspiration. She was sending me some of the prompts and I would have never known that she was inspired by the Queen of Swords to send out this prompt for her own customers. 

So I think that there are more subtle ways that you could start to bring and integrate tools like Tarot into your business without overnight branding yourself as witch or as a Tarot reader or as a magician or as ‘woo-woo.’ Because I think at the same time some of these things can be really personal and I think that's the boundary that I've had a hard time really butting up against is that for me some of this stuff is very personal and spiritual and I don't know that I necessarily want to bring all of that into my business.

Like some of it I do kind of just want to save for me a little bit. So it's a little bit tricky.

Emily: I agree and one of the things that we definitely found while we were pushing the line for ourselves was how much of our tribe responded to it. I'll never forget whenever we did our first Being Boss vacation, we went to New Orleans and Kathleen and I definitely had these behind the scenes reasoning of we're going to go witch shopping and we're going to go get Tarot card readings and all of these things but weren't expecting anyone to be joining us by any means. 

Then we get there and everyone is wanting to do the exact same thing and we were blown away by how we had all sort of found ourselves together in this place, like drawn together by all of these fun woo-woo things when that was not what was expected. But by us sharing that, little by little, we encouraged everyone else to come out of the broom closet too which I think is just fantastic and just sort of proof that where we were tip-toeing around it. Whenever we did start sharing it a little bit it was much better received than we ever expected it to be. 

Brigit: Yay, more of that! It's cool. So I would love to hear how you're using Tarot in your business and later I think we'll ask talk about how you're using it in your personal life.

Kathleen: It's funny because every time I do a reading, which is typically around the new moon or the full moon or a holiday, birthday, New Year, think that those are times that are really great to check in and I use Tarot as a tool. I always tend to go to business first and I don't know if that's just because it's a huge part of my life but I'm always asking myself, “How does this reflect in my business? How does this reflect in my personal life?” I'm usually coming to my tarot cards with business questions.

So a great example of this is Emily and I were in New Orleans, we were shifting our business model, we had a lot of angst and anxiety around it. We were working with a business coach who is amazing and not very ‘woo,’ and we were working with her but we decided that we need to go see our Tarot reader. She’s the blue haired dreaded lady in Jackson Square New Orleans and she gave us the best reading. It was so spot on and it really helped us own what we were doing. It helped us see it from a few different angles and then recently we were talking with publishers as we were pitching the book and…

Emily: And for every publisher call that we did, we drew a card immediately after and we would draw a card and just sort of meditate on what that could mean for that particular relationship. I mean on one hand, it may be completely nonsensical. On the other hand, it totally sparked an amazing conversation between Kathleen and I around what it could mean to choose this publisher over any of the other ones. So for us that was just like a fun little way that we just sort of brought Tarot into these business decision. And I think we chose the right one which is really exciting for us. And looking back, it was my favourite Tarot card as well.

Kathleen: I would hate if those publishers are listening to this call to think, “Like wait, a Tarot card determined my fate?” And that's not it at all. I mean, we believe in free will and we don't believe that tarot cards are necessarily telling our future but they definitely help us get a glimpse into what could be and it helps us in our business ask those ‘what if’ scenarios. 

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I don't know if you find this, Brigit in your business, but whenever we're planning, we are constantly asking ourselves, “Well what if this happens? What if this fails? What if we get this really great opportunity, then what?” Like any time you're filling out an operating agreement, it is filled with what if questions whenever it comes to business partnerships and money and the future. So I think that those tarot cards have really helped us create prompts around what if which is pretty amazing.

Emily: I'll also say, there's been a couple times when I have been wanting to write a newsletter or a blog post because I have a content deadline and I know I send out a newsletter every Thursday and it's Thursday morning and I still haven't written it yet. When I don't know what to write about I can pull a card and then freestyle write on whatever that card brings to mind. So for me, I even use them as writing prompts in terms of sometimes business newsletters just to sort of give my brain a different space or have a prompt to get something that's in my head out and it just needs a little help getting there.

Brigit: I think Tarot works so beautifully when you just need that sort of creative inspiration or just, there's 78 little stories and all you need to do is hook into one story, think about how that might be applying to your life right now and then what great content, that's a little slice of you in that newsletter. And if we think about universal energy then something that's going to relate to a lot of people at that point in time as well. 

I just want to go back to this thing around using Tarot for business decisions because I think sometimes people might get a little bit mistaken thinking, “Well you just decide exactly what's going to happen in your business because the Tarot cards tell you to do this – and so you do this because the cards said…” But you said some really interesting things – and one of which was it helped us to own our ideas, or to own this part of the business, and I think that's where Tarot can work just beautifully when it's not so much a confirmation of what you're thinking, but where you check for that alignment. It's offering a new layer of looking at things. 

Then sometimes that will set you off in a slightly different direction and open up new possibilities. But ultimately you're still in control of your business.

Kathleen: The card that really stood out in that reading was the High Priestess. What has stuck with me is the High Priestess and anytime my confidence is a little shaken or I'm asking am I doing the right thing I put on my High Priestess undies and I get to work. I just imagine I have a crescent moon tattooed on my forehead and I get to work. So even more than shifting the direction of our business it made me just kind of own it and be more confident and be that leader that the Tarot cards were reflecting back at me.

Brigit: Have you ever had a time in your business where you were torn between two paths?

Emily: This past summer I was thinking about doing a digital product and I was thinking about how and when I was going to do it, if I should put my energy into that when I could be doing something else. And I had a really hard time deciding whether or not it was the right thing for me to do at that moment in my business because it was going to be a huge investment in my time but could be really big for my business.

I had a really hard time deciding. My gut told me yes I needed to do this, and my business brain was like no you need to be putting work in on things that are already created. I did some Tarot spreads around it, and the thing that really pushed me over the edge was using these Tarot spreads to do further journaling.

That further journaling prompted by these Tarot spreads lead me down the path of doing it, launching it, making money, and having a recurring product that I could launch over and over again. But, for me it was a real inner struggle making that commitment to do it and I had battling ideas as to what I should be spending my time on.

Now that I've done it, God bless my little notebook. I'm so glad that I did and that was I think a perfect example of time when as an entrepreneur you have tons of responsibility, I have clients, I have employees, we have to meet income goals and all of these things, so I have to be super sensible with my time. But as a creative, sometimes I just need to create and as a human I need to explore things. 

So sometimes those things can butt up against each other and for me I suck at journaling, I cannot just sit down and journal, I can't do it. But if you give me some Tarot cards and tell me to make sense of them then I will journal all day and that usually leads me to a place of accepting whatever decision I've made and taking action on it.

Brigit: It’s that interesting dance between being in your business head and being in your creative and intuitive head. And I know me personally, I go into overdrive in business that just seems to be my natural place and I have to really pull back and have creative space. I think having things like Tarot can just help bring you into the space. So how are you balancing business and intuition in that sense?

Kathleen: I feel like I'm 100% intuition. I've made every business decision based on intuition and that sometimes has bitten me in the ass like if I've would have used my head a little bit I would have been better off. But even right now I'm struggling through some business decisions that I have to make and it's whenever I start using my head like this would be the smart business thing to do, it really seems to be getting me into trouble. If I would just go with my gut, I don't know, it's kind of tricky to talk about because I'm still in the middle of making these business decisions but my gut is telling me one thing and then business coaches and advisors and just common sense are telling me another. But in general I would say that trusting my intuition and going with my gut whenever it comes to creating what it is that I want to create and what it is that I want to be known for that has always worked. 

So an example of this might be whenever I was knee deep in branding and business visioning for creative entrepreneurs, an opportunity came up to go through some coaching training with Martha Beck and my gut was just screaming yes you should totally do this. My head was trying to make sense of it, how am I going to fit in this coaching training with Martha Beck into the business model that I've created? 

Now four or five years later, I can look back and see perfectly how it fits in. I can have better conversations. I can ask better questions. I'm asking creatives to blend who they are with what they do, a lot of that. I mean I've had conversations where we've worked through their branding and then after they say, “Okay I think might be getting a divorce. What does this mean for my brand?” I was not at all prepared to have those conversations before I went through that kind of training. It gave the confidence to really get more personal with it. 

So in hindsight, if I'd listened to my head my head, I wouldn’t have done it. But my gut was definitely saying this is a good thing, take this, it will add to your experience, it will lead to great things and it has truly.

Brigit: So do you sort of create time in your general work schedule where you might say okay right Monday from 9 until 10 is journaling time? Are you quite set in that way or is it more organic or does it come to you in the shower? How does it work for you?

Kathleen: Oh I wish. I wish I was like journaling from 9 to 10 every day. It's not quite like that, but I definitely feel like we've set up, I mean speaking for myself, we've set up structures around the lunar cycle. We have a little group of us that have meetings once or twice a month where we get together and talk about cards that we've pulled or dreams that we've had or different herbs and how they're affecting us. So I feel like for me, it definitely comes and goes in weekly cycles more so than a daily cycle.

Emily: Absolutely. I don't have a very good structure around it either other than the moon. So I am pretty adamant about my new moon and full moon spreads, otherwise I have cards all over my house. So I may just be walking by some and be like oh let's just see what's happening here and then I pull a card. I try to keep one at my desk and I do tend to pull a card every morning just to get a vibe for the day. But even that, that's not something that I do all the time. I am pretty organic about it. We have a friend who specializes in journaling and she has a thing called SOS Journaling where you only journal whenever you really need to. Sometimes I tend to be a SOS Tarot card reader.

Brigit: I quite like the regularity, even like the daily card pull just helps set the tone for the day. But then sometimes it's more about just what's pulling you to really check in. And I guess in that way you may be more in tune with how you're feeling and what you need at that time versus I must read the cards today and the cards will tell me what to do today, and so on. 

Kathleen: I have had a couple moments where I almost felt as though my deck was beckoning me. Like I have something I need to tell you, shuffle me up and tell me and lay it out. So it's been pretty incredible but for the most part, yeah, I don't know. I love it whenever that happens and I feel like I have a lot of trust in the cards whenever that happens because there are those moments where I'm like is this real. Then I go down like a philosophical tailspin of like what is real and what's meaningful. 

Emily: I'm totally guilty of just going to my cards and picking the card I want and just looking at it and reading it. I'm also very guilty of wanting to see what the Hermit has to say to me today. So we’re probably the least traditional Tarot readers there are. We make it work for us.

Brigit: What is traditional anyway?

Emily: Right.

Kathleen: But you know what though? “What is traditional?” is actually a really good question that I want to dig into a little bit because I think that a lot of our listeners have gotten curious about Tarot since we've been talking a little bit about it. I think that there are all these preconceived notions about what it looks like to read Tarot cards and to even be the kind of person to own a Tarot deck that you have to fit this certain image, but you don't. You can be anybody with a deck reading them any way you want. Maybe I'm just a rule breaker.

I definitely love consulting meanings whenever I'm feeling a little tripped up and that's what I have your website for, Brigit. But for the most part and I think that's why I love your podcast so much because it's given me a lot of confidence around the idea that if it's just me and the cards I have the full power and capacity to interpret those for myself. I can pull a Tower, I can pull a Nine of Swords and it doesn't have to be doom and gloom, it can mean whatever I want it to mean.

Brigit: Yeah, that's it.

Emily: Also, I also love the interview that you did with Gala Darling where you asked her what she saw the future of Tarot being. She said that in the future everyone will have a Tarot deck on their coffee table. I loved that. I loved the idea of people being so open to Tarot that they'll just have a deck and walk by it and pull a card or show it off to friends or whatever. 

I'm also totally guilty of being the kind of person who will put my Tarot cards away when people come over just because I don't want to have that conversation. But I'm doing that less and less which I think is a funny evolution of even my own comfort with it. So I love this idea that Tarot is becoming so much more mainstream and therefore so much more understood that it can be a tool that anyone can tap into no matter what they think about traditional Tarot readers. I think it's a beautiful time we live in.

Kathleen: It's just like having the Wild Unknown coming into the Anthropology stores. And we were looking at a house over the weekend and it was beautifully designed and decorated inside and I looked down and there were Tarot cards. Like it was this gorgeous room with the Star Child Tarot.

Emily: I agree. I have started buying Tarot cards as gifts for people.

Kathleen: Compare the Rider Waite deck with the Wild Unknown deck. I am big fangirl of Rider Waite, but for many people it might be hard to relate with. And yet you have a total eye candy deck like Wild Unknown and you could give that to anyone who likes Tarot or doesn't like Tarot and they could just look at those cards all day and go oh my goodness these are so pretty. It doesn't have to be all the woo and the magic behind it.

Brigit: I've been having so much fun just listening and learning about how you are using Tarot in your business and just how it's kind of integrating with your entrepreneurial work which is really, really great. Tell me just a little bit about what's coming up for you over the next sort of six to twelve months. Sounds like you've got a book on its way, is there anything else exciting that's coming up for you?

Emily: No, we have the book which is definitely the most exciting thing, sprinkling as much woo in there as we can and as we want to. But other than we're very intentionally leaving the next twelve months pretty chill for the two of us. We have been hustling our entrepreneur lives on full throttle for years now and so we're really exciting about taking some time to write a book which is its own hustle for sure.

Kathleen: Yes, we record two podcasts every single week, so we have an episode that releases on Tuesdays and another one that releases on Fridays and that's at Being Boss. But we also have our clubhouse which is an exclusive membership where we're helping 25 bosses at a time really level up in their business and think about how their bringing intention into their business models. And we're still looking at things like their sales funnels and how they're creating content to generate leads into their business but then we're also integrating some of that woo in there.

So Brigit, you even came and hung out with our clubhouse recently and gave them a little bit of a workshop which was super fun. We try and do stuff like that all the time. We have a couple of small retreats and a big vacation in New Orleans next fall. So we definitely have a lot on the table, we're just used to doing so much that Emily feels like writing a book is a break. 

Emily: In my life it sure is.

Brigit: I know but it is a reflection of just how full we can make our calendars and like I'm looking at my calendar until like April and it is full up, like 100% full, overflowing and yet I think oh if I only I could create just a bit of space… Because the space allows new things to come through, new opportunities, evolution in some way or another. So I think you're very smart to create a little bit of space around writing a book because yeah, that's not a holiday. So where can people find out more about you guys?

Emily: You can find our podcast which releases twice a week at but also anywhere that you listen to podcasts. We do write articles on our website at and we have our clubhouse which is our exclusive membership offering at then we also really love our Instagram account at @BeingBossClub.

Brigit: Awesome and we'll make sure that we post those links in the show notes which will be over at, that's six zero.

Kathleen: I'm also at then also my personal Instagram is @AndKathleen.

Emily: My personal Instagram is @EmilyM_Thompson and you can find my own business at

Brigit: Beautiful, well ladies it has been an absolute joy to talk with you and I just love this like magic connect between Tarot and business and just seeing it all come to life in a really positive and proactive way. So thank you so much for sharing your stories today, I really appreciate it and I wish you very, very well.

Kathleen: Oh awesome, thank you so much.

Emily: Thank you for having us!

Brigit: So there you have it, I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Kathleen and Emily from the Being Boss Podcast as much I did. I just really enjoyed hearing their stories and sharing more about how Tarot is integrating into their business strategy and their business practice. 


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Alright, it has been my absolute pleasure to chat with you. Again I hope you have a really fabulous week ahead and I look forward to connecting again very soon. Bye for now.


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